What is that one subject your child just loathes? The one that brings tears and frustration - yours and theirs. I have blogged before about Makayla’s math struggles. She did her math today and took over an hour for 18 problems. If she had worked steadily it should have taken probably a half an hour. After I graded the paper she had missed eight of those problems making mostly simple mistakes.
Her reaction was beyond ridiculous when I told her we were going to sit together to work the problems she had missed to figure out where things went wrong. She’s an emotional, stubborn, defiant child when it comes to math and it’s not been pretty at my house today. It stinks. I’m the meanest mom in the world, according to her, and math is awful, she’s never going to do math again, blah blah blah.
The thing that really drives me crazy is she will do math just fine for a few days, though it takes a while, and then we hit a day where it’s World War III again. I don’t get it. I really don’t. How do you get across to that child that some subjects are just non-negotiable?
Honestly it is not just the math that needs addressed. She’s grasping it okay when she’s calm. It’s her reactions. She’s over-reacting to everything math related and then her obedience and respectfulness goes right out the window. She is literally crying, wailing, yelling, and flat out refusing to do things. My solution so far works (she sits in the chair until the assignment it done), but it is not really addressing the heart of the problem. How do you handle a child who suddenly turns into a monster over an assignment?
Seriously, I need some ideas because too many more days like today and I will win the meanest mom of the year award. Help!
39 comments:
disclaimer first off, my son is only three. So I haven't actually hit this point yet with him in Homeschooling.
BUT, my daughter is 14, although she's being schooled in a classroom.
What if you give her a 'free pass' each week, a ticket that she can trade in to take a day off of math? Or, if she did all her math without drama one week, she would EARN the pass to use the next??
With Chuck (14 yr old), math was her struggle too. And there were times when we would work for an hour, and she'd be fine, then it was like she hit a wall. Problems that she could do two minutes earlier, she couldn't anymore.
It was honestly like her brain imploded. She needed a break, then we could go back again.
OR, sometimes, she just needed it in short spurts. Can you divide the problems up, work for 20 minutes, move on to Botany, then work for another 20??
It sounds like you might want to try a different curriculum.
I feel for you and for Makayla. I struggled through math my whole life and now my son does also.
I have a learning disability in Math. Have you had her tested?
There are brain training exercises you might be able to find to help her.
Good luck.
The most important thing before mastering the math concept you are teaching is that she develops a love of learning. I homeschool my 6-year old and last fall, I was determined that she will master her addition. There are days that she will be fine and other days, she's not interested in doing her workbooks. The moment I saw that she was getting frustrated, I backed off. What I have tried and learned is that if I give her a math problem verbally, she's able to grasp the concept. For example: We have 3 apples in the bowl. If I asked Daddy to bring home 2 more from the store, how many will we have? And you know, she gets it. I have realized that it is more important for my daughter to enjoy learning and thinking of other creative ways (other than worksheets) of teaching math. I have been recommended the Singapore Math by a Math teacher. I've also been recommended the Math-It program. I am waiting to receive the Math-It that I purchased through Love to Learn (Amazon was out of it). I am grateful for moms like you who homeschool. I receive emails from Latterday homeschooling and I recently read your input about reading aloud this summer. I will certainly do that. I have found that everyday is a learning day...There is always a teaching moment. I love being with our youngest child each day and know that this is such a blessing to me.
I'm no expert in older children, my oldest is only five, but I do remember what it was like to do math problems and be very overwhelmed. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
Would it be possible for you to break it up throughout the day? Like tell her if she does 5 problems in 10 minutes (or whatever you think is reasonable) without mistakes then she gets a 10 minute break? Then work on another subject or two and then do some more?
Have you asked her (when you are both calm) if she has any suggestions on what would make it easier for her? She's old enough where you can say, "It's important, it needs to get done, how can I help you?" and you can help her follow through.
I would suggest that her crying and throwing a tantrum is not just about being stubborn, she is overwhelmed. I remember getting a test in algebra 2 and I had NO idea how to figure any of them out. I didn't throw a tantrum (because I was 17) but my eyes did fill with tears and I knew I was going to fail. When you get frustrated and overwhelmed, your brain automatically shuts down.
I know some oldest children, especially girls, have a tendency to be perfectionists (ask me how I know this). Would you describe her as a perfectionist? If you would, I would also suggest that you help teach her coping strategies now, before it gets worse. Sometimes perfectionists can only see the big picture, not the little details. Help her break it down.
I'm sorry for the novel, I apologize if there was nothing useful in it. But my heart really feels for you, I know what it's like to feel like you deserve a bad mommy award. And I know you don't.
I don't have any wonderful advice, but I did want to let you know that I'm in the same boat as you. My oldest is in 1st grade & your stories of Makayla's struggles remind me SO much of him. During some of our recent trials I've actually told my husband about you & how nice it is to know that I'm not alone! He does great for a few days & is actually quite good at math (definitely from my hubby! ;)) & then, like you said, its WWIII trying to get him to even do a single problem. It is so frustrating!! Anyways, like I said before, no advice but most I certainly know how you feel!
~Kalani
Star, The pass idea is interesting, I’ll have to think about that.
Pyratess – We actually switched from Saxon to MUS two years ago, starting over completely. Makayla gets math with MUS, it makes sense to her now, she just has lingering “I’m no good at math” mindset.
Mahani – Makayla has a love of learning for everything but math. We are taking this at Makayla’s pace, as I mentioned above we literally started over in math two years ago with basic counting and addition, and that was after taking several months off math entirely. I don’t move on until she can do a concept. She hates oral work, I try to get her to read the problems aloud, or have me read them to her and it’s even worse. She’s not auditory, it almost is a distraction for her to hear it out loud.
Megan – Makayla is does get overwhelmed. Several mentioned breaking up math - Doing the problems in short spurts causes MORE difficulties because then she is complaining and fighting me about doing math multiple times a day instead of once. (We’ve tried it.) The work I’m assigning is reasonable amounts to finish in a half hour and it is work she knows how to do, as she shows me several days a week. It’s just the days when she becomes emotional that she struggles.
Yes, she’s a perfectionist in some ways, and we’ve been working on that. I’m and oldest too, so I see it and know the good and bad side to that. She does get stuck on the big picture, the details are what she struggles with, breaking it down into bites. I’m not sure how to help her see the steps beyond what I’m doing (showing her step by step and then talking her through it step by step, then having her teach me how to do it step by step). Again, I think it comes back to when she gets her emotions involved that things break down. On a calm day she does fine. Sigh…
Her only suggestion to make math easier is to not do it at all.
Thanks for the ideas everyone, and the support. It’s nice to know others are out there figuring this out a day at a time too!
Thanks Kalani! You might want to read Makayla's story of math in full then. I blogged it here: http://www.latter-dayhomeschooling.com/2010/04/its-okay-to-start-over.html
Well, here are my 2 cents....
Take a break from math for a week, to let things calm down... and yes, evaluate the math program.... is it going too fast? has too many problems?
This was a few years ago, with violin. My son (then 4) would lie down on the floor anytime he was supposed to play with fingers, or do anything he figured was too hard... nothing could make him co-operate. Games that were supposed to help practice made him have a tantrum tantrum whenever something he "couldn't" do came up (even though we knew he could.) So we took a break for a couple of weeks... then we used a practice chart with a specific list of what he would do (from a new practice book that I used as the authority...) and started doing practice. Each item he did happily, would give him a smilie face (including coming happy to practice.) If he got all smilie faces, he got a star for the practice.
First day, he had 1 or 2 smiles (out of about 10 things)... and I complimented him on the 2 smiles and challenged him to get more. (btw, he had to do everything, happy or not...)
Eventually he was getting stars each day.
more coming....
2nd part (sorry for the novel...)
For your daughter, for math... I suspect that her mind is "shutting down". I've seen it with a lot of people... they get overwhelmed or frustrated, and it is like they can't thing straight anymore. Having to sit there until done isn't going to help it....
I would honestly sit with her during math for now - and set a timer for 15 minutes. Have her do math for 15 minutes (you are there to see that she is working on it, not daydreaming or staring at the page...). When the 15 minutes are up, she is done for now... do some other subject, or something fun. Do another 15 minute session later in the day. (I might even suggest only 5 or 10 minutes at first.) Make sure that she does something totally different before and after math... probably even something physical like dancing etc.
Do you use manipulatives during math? That might help her past her mind "shutting down"... and will certainly help you see if she is working out a problem or not...
I'd also consider doing something different for math for a bit for a change to the habit of "math is horrible". Something like "Life of Fred" or there is some sites with weekly math challenges. Sometimes a change is as good as a rest.
I suspect she will progress faster with math if she can learn to at least like it again (or at least it is no longer her worst nightmare) than it is to push through with a power struggle.
Hope this helps!
I agree with most of the other comments. I am dealing with the exact same thing with my 9 yr old.
To be honest I H.A.T.E. all the math curriculum available. I have no idea where these "professional curriculum writers" get their ideas about teaching children. A child's mind works differently and pushing skills will not get them to learn math any better.
I have created my own math curriculum. Though my son still struggles a little, he no longer refuses to do it. We even enjoy working through it together if he is not getting a certain problem.
His biggest problem was he didn't want to do division. He would see a problem and refuse to do it. He also didn't get fractions.
Now he doesn't even realize he is doing division until we are checking his work and I point it out to him.
I am working on making my Math workbooks available soon. If you would like to see a sample let me know and I will email it to you.
God bless you, and don't throw in the towel yet. You are almost at the top of the mountain. Just keep the picture of you and your daughter standing on top looking down with smiles and joy.
Tristan,
I would offer something, but it looks like you have already received so many really good suggestions. I did want to let you know that you have competition. I won the "Meanest Mom" award last year and it looks like I'm a strong contender this year.
How old is she? I can't remember, but I think she's around my son's age. He shuts down like that too. When he was 9/10yrs. old he would break down like your DD. After awhile I figured out that he was also going through some hormone changes and when everything was overwhelming he couldn't cope. He's much better at 11yrs. I don't have any good advice though. I just made sure he knew what was expected to be done for the week. If he couldn't handle it for that day, fine---but it would have to be done by Friday.
I haven't read other replies, but here's my thoughts . . . (as I often tell a friend who has children a couple years younger than mine, my advice is worth a little less than you're paying for it, take it or leave it). . . WHY is math a non-negotiable at this age? I wish I'd kept the link because I've found reasons to tell SO MANY people about it over the last couple of years, but I didn't. . . but a couple years ago I read an article where a study was done and children weren't given any math instruction until they were . . . I want to say 8th grade, but give or take a few years. Then they were taken through math at their pace and within (again, details are fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure it was less than a year) they were at or above grade level. That article really "cemented" for me, my decision to not force a math curriculum on my young children. If they can "catch up" in a year or less, then why not wait until they know "what they want to be when they grow up" and then talk through what their math needs are going to be for that career path, and then turn them loose to learn the math they will need to learn. My theory is that at that point they will be motivated because they will realize they need it AND they will be older and learn it more easily.
Which isn't to say we avoid math per se, we use math in the kitchen all the time. This past spring, after I'd explained to the girls that daffodils typically double each year, Lexie came and told me that within 5 years we'd have over 1000 daffodils, and we spent some time playing with the numbers for that . . . we get quite abit of math in day-to-day life, and as part of the TOS Crew we reviewed some math drill programs, so they got a taste of math with those, but typically I don't push math (or anything else).
So all that to say . . .why is math a non-negotiable in your house? Is it because the state requires it? Because your husband feels it's important that your children learn it at this age, or simply because we were all raised in a society that said math had to be taught starting at age 5 or 6? And if it's that last one, does it have to be that way?
Only you can answer those questions for your family, but I thought I'd throw them out there for you :o)
Tristan Today I wrote over on my blog how we tackled this very problem. You can change programs 100 times but it will still be there. This was the winner for us.
http://flowersnplaid.blogspot.com/2011/05/eat-frog-first.html
Tristan I can relate some* to this problem with Lexi. She doesn't like math at all. She gets everything else so easily, its hard to understand why not math? However they are always going to have something be a struggle. I think from my situation the reason the "actions" come out is because she is upset with HERSELF. Its not you at least here in my home. I see she is upset with herself for not doing as well as SHE wants to. So we do alot of it verbally and have even bought some math tiles so that we can do alot of it like our AAS. This seems to help her however she just plainly doesn't like math! I dont think that will ever change and I dont mind that she doesn't like it. I just need her to learn the basics and excel where her heart leads her... Make sense? As for the disrespect... Its not alright in our home and I know its not in yours either. Maybe you can make a deal about school items not making her that upset? School time needs to be seperate from normal time? I dont know my dear friend, Just want you to know your NOT THE ONLY ONE... Kyle also goes threw something similar in his English lessons... So I will pray for you and you for me!! Deal? XOXO Love ya!
My son is hating math at this point as well. He does well unless it is something that he deems is too hard and then there is "weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth." I'm in the process of changing math programs(thanks to you), but that isn't really the heart of the issue. In our house unless school is done you don't eat dinner. When dad gets home and I'm finishing dinner, dad helps with math. It is amazing how more willing he is to work with his dad on those frustrating days than mom, just because it is different.
One more thing, I had a neighbor that homeschools as well and her sons were struggling with math (angry, can't do it, etc) and I offered to have them do math at my house. It was only once a week and I really didn't help with their math, but it was another location to do math. I know splitting your family isn't an option, but how about a change of location--doing math outside, inside a fort, under the table. Good luck and I will keep reading the comments for help with my own son.
Maybe give her a choice in math, for instance give her a page with 25 problems on it and tell her to choose 10. Sometimes with kids it's the amount that sends them over the edge, and if she can get it right by doing just a few, don't ask her to keep on doing it. Maybe knowing that she has less will be a motivator. It's the quality, not the quantity is wat I guess I am trying to get at.
Like you I have a 10yr old daughter who can get very disobedient and disrespectful. Our solution I don't give in on the assignment that must be done. As for the monster behavior we address that in two ways. First once things have calm down we look in our Bibles and read what it has to say on the subjects of obedience and respectfulness. Then I normally have her copy a verse or two on the subjects just for reminders then they get hung in her room or somewhere where she can see them through out the day.
The second part involves the taking away of things or something that is important to her. A lot of times it is her favorite toy. For how long depends on how long the negative behavior lasted. It could be for a day or longer.
I hope this helps and just for the record I have been told many times that I was the meanest mom ever so you are not alone on that front.
My sisters and I call each other often to pass around the prize of being the "Worst Mom Ever!" We mainly just share our mommy fails for the day because we all have them!
I don't know what you would think about this, but I've found that some kids learn better when they have a new teacher (speaking from the public school point of view). For example, the parent might decide to hire a tutor or a family friend who can explain things a little clearer or make the subject more fun than the teacher at school. You could adapt that to homeschooling. Are there any other homeschooling moms around here that understand MUS and the topic she's on right now that could sit down and try to help her work through it? Because you seem to be butting heads about math, it might help for her to step out of the power struggle she keeps trying to wage against you whenever math comes up. She might be less likely to be defiant to a family friend. I know that she's always been an angel to me! I'm always willing to help out whenever you need it! I've spent time doing online tutoring, and I've tutored a teenager in our ward in math. In both situations, the children usually come out with a better mood, a better grade, and better understanding. I'm willing to take a crack at it!
I was this child. Math never made much sense to me and I hated it. Only now that I am teaching it does it make sense. We also found out down the road that I have various learning disabilities that probably didn't help my ability to learn math. This might be something I would check into, considering her history. There are disabilities, including a branch of dyslexia directly related to the ability to understand math.
Now I'm teaching children with special needs and I've learned a few things.
Set expectations. Let her know you expect X out of the X number of problems to be correct or she'll need to fix some until she reaches your expectation. This drastically reduces careless mistakes. However I wouldn't expect complete perfection. So for today I would say 15 out of the 18 need to be correct. Nothing is more frustrating to someone who struggles with math than knowing going into it, your doomed to fail because you'll probably get something wrong. I know it sounds ridiculous, but that exactly how I used to feel. We all make mistakes, no one is perfect. Mistakes are okay, as long as we learn from them (but we don't or may not learn from them on that day, and that's okay).
Less is more, especially with concepts that are difficult. Take it in small chunks, over the course of days. Throw in some previous concepts to warm her up and boost her confidence. Do a few problems and move on. If the brain hits frustration mode, there is no point in moving forward psychology speaking. No learning can take plan when the brain is in this mode.
Expect there to "off" days. Tomorrow is always another day and another chance to try again.
Some things are better fixed tomorrow. I personally would have taken a look at those 8 incorrect problems and made the next day's math lesson the discussion of what went wrong and how to fix it. That's it. Done. Next subject.
Games, games, games. My students struggled with money, like majorly. I was frustrated, they were frustrated and it was just bad. So my solution was that we would play nothing but games when dealing with money and it worked. Problems were fixed over night with no direct teaching and no worksheets. All we just was played games to play games. It worked and we came out of it with them blowing me away with their higher level understanding.
Now I understand that her reaction is also a problem but I would probably try to keep any disciplinary actions for her defiant reaction separate from math. Punishing her by forcing her to sit there until she did her math only makes math the punishment, which won't really help her attitude for math. Instead I would probably drop the math and create disciplinary actions for the attitude towards math (i.e. lost privilege, item, etc.).
Hope that helps!
My youngest loves math but has this similar breakdown at any point during school. He HATES messing up and having to re-do something. I have yet to figure out how to fix that.
But in regards to being helpful! I have a couple of ideas. I too, like another poster, HATE the math curriculum out there. They are all work books and they all 'teach' math the same way. I bought a math program last summer that is basically 'unschooling' math with a plan from grades K-8. Written by a homeschool mom that KNOWS how to teach math because it worked with her kids. It is awesome and I can't say enough about it. It is adaptable to any age, any learning style and any personality. I would give it a look www.mathonthelevel.com
My second suggestion is www.livingmath.net which is FULL of picture books that teach math concepts that are eaily found at the library. They have an AWESOME list of suggestions, also many lists of games you can buy/make to teach math concepts as well as free online games. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that resource.
I also agree with the need to enjoy learning, I think as homeschool mom's we get trapped in just doing worksheets because it is easy on us. We have lots of kids to teach at different levels, a house to clean, babies to take care of, groceries, cooking ect. I started out anti-worksheet and now I too have fallen in the trap and need to pull myself out. It saves time to teach them so they enjoy it even if it takes more planning on our part. There is less fighting over work and in the end it was worth the time. What does Makalya enjoy learning about? Can you some how mix math into that? What subject is she learning about in math? Can you use some real life experience to teach that subject? Make it a game? Have her siblings teach her? I know there are a lot of ideas here and ONLY you know your daughter best but hopefully something works out! It is nice to know other mom's have the same issues and to read others ideas on tackling them!
Oh, one more idea. Give her a certain amount of time for math, so for today if you expected her to finish in 30 minutes, give her 1 hour. Set the timer and explain that she has an hour to complete as much as she can/chooses to. However, any remaining time is hers and she may choose something she wants to do (read, computer, TV show, etc.) before moving on to the next subject. This might give her some incentive to move along since she will be wasting her time and help her develop some time management skills.
I too am a mean mom! My oldest son (10 years) has this struggle with Grammer (I think it is a boy thing). My daughter (9 years) has this struggle with Math. If she gets too upset and disrespectful she is sent to her room until she can come out and be with the family (the work has to be done today....no matter how long into the evening you take). This helps and I get an apology. There are times she is just overly tired and will take a short nap and then be ready to work. It helps her know that her Aunt Kimmy Struggled with Math also and had to work a little harder at it, but now she is great with Math (maybe even better than mommy). When she gets to a section with lots of review in our curriculum I let her pick so many problems from each section. I will write on the paper next to each section the number of problems she has to do. This helps her not feel overwhelmed. Some of the drama at her age might be the start of hormonal changes. I know that age is early, but we have noticed beginnign signs here. Sorry I don't have a solution, but you arne't alone.
I was listening to a Susan Wise Bauer talk on mp3 the other day, and she was talking about strategies in similar situations, and one of the things she suggested was taking the difficulty level down but actually raising the amount of time daily for awhile (instead of, say 45 minutes of multiplication, do 60 or more minutes of something you know she feels success in). This gives her a chance for a little while to build confidence while still working on skills. Another thing she suggested was perhaps offering the option of doing it only four days a week, but for longer each time. There were many other good suggestions. The talk is available on the Peace Hill Press website. Good luck! I have a rising second grader with VERY similar math issues...
Of course I am going to tell you that I too have a math emotional melt down.
I had it for a long time. It was present at the start of the year then it eased up but resurfaced again.
I have done one thing to ease it and stop the puffy cheeks, the stiff arm and the pouting face. I use to say to her that it is rediculous that it took her ten minutes to do one problem.
SO I stopped caring if she memorized it. I got her an older abacus that has ten on each rack but has five of one color and five of another. I hoped it would help her visualize it. As long as she get the process correct then I let her use the abacus to make the answer. Since its use began she has come to know some via memorization. I got rid of flash card as it caused stress and timed testing.
THE MOMENT that I see frustration on her face I make a quick switch to something I know she will be successful in.
WE also do a lot of white board math together. I have stopped letting it frustrate me and I have become that voice that I often use to dislike. THat calm in the storm that tells her that this is no big deal at all. That she has forever to learn it and that as it becomes necessary in her life she will manage to develop the skill.
We went to the market and purchased some plants. I skip counted by three and four in gathering plants then had her grab some more for me and she mimiced me. I have her take in the money to pay for the gas as we count it out in the car together. We also took a field trip to a mathasium so to speak and when we left she asked when we were going to the math place. When I told her all the games we played were math she announce "but that was fun"
I made a choice not to fight it or about it. WE placed an affirmation statement in the class area that is reviewed each day. Initially, we made the statement looking into the mirror. Sure all basic psychology but it worked.
She still hates math if left to do it all alone. When a worksheet deals with measurements I will have put on the wall a quick review of measurements the day before and leave them there as a resource. I do not test a matter until I know she has it mastered which has lead to scores not less than 97% for months now. Today she got 100$. She had the tools and resources present to help her but this time did not use them.
He confidence is building. She knows we are taking it slow and that although the last day of school is Friday her math will go on all summer.
I know it sounds easy to choose not to fight but not only is she creating an unhealthy look at things she is manipulating you as the parent as well. As an experienced mother and grandmother that manipulation also effects others in the house. So she is exerting power over a household with her emotions.
Let her own them. Acknowledge how hard she feels math is.
As another note years ago they tested my son who is very high IQ for a specific math learning disability. He did not test to have it but I know that some can be very very bright but have a learning disability only in math. Worth looking into as well.
I like what April said about finding versus. Nice! You could be talking about my daughter here. My daughter is in public school (I am pulling her out next year, partly due t how behind in math she is). She hates it, is and will never be good at it and why will she ever need it. I just keep reassuring her that WE are in it together, we will figure it out and work thru it together. We are a team. It has helped that she knows how BAD I am at it and I let her know that I am relearning with her. I want her to succeed and she will get it. We are working thru the attitude and not giving up anytime work is involved. Keep up the good work, this to shall pass!!!
Are you sure you didn't have my daughter with you today? This sounds so much like Grace. We have struggled with math for 4 years now. Some is learning capabilities and some is attitude about doing the work. I also got fed up with all the curriculumns out there and made up my own for this past year. This worked somewhat okay. For 7th grade (this next year) it will be Teaching Textbooks. I think the computer aspect will be appealing to her. Sorry that I don't have any great words of wisdom. I just know that for high school we will probably not be looking at alot of higher math unless something changes soon.
Blessings
Diane
Tristan,
I've had math issues with both of mine, now almost 12 and 14. For my oldest, math was the first subject that gave her a challenge, and she wasn't used to that. She decided early on that math wasn't her subject and she was "bad at math". For her, it was a matter of making her realize she just had to tackle math. There was no way around it. She's finally getting over the hump at 14, after having her work with a tutor for a few months.
My behavior of my youngest sounds almost identical to what you are experiencing. My best advice is to not engage. I've explained to my son that one can't learn in a fit of rage. If I show any emotion when he's upset, he feeds off it. I often give him a blank look (scolding doesn't work, nor does consoling) and send him elsewhere until he's calmed down.
When he's calmed down, we go right back to the math. He often gets whatever he was missing within seconds, which I then follow with a ton of praise and explain that it was his behavior, not the math, that was in his way.
I made the mistake of changing our math program too many times with my daughter. It took me some time to realize that usually the program didn't matter. Unless it is an obviously poor fit, we stick with what we are using and then supplement with different things if needed.
It is frustrating, but hang in there! Make sure you keep calm and collected, and keep plugging away at it. If she sees your confidence in her math ability, she may slowly build confidence in herself and the resulting successes will only add to that.
My second daughter is like this, pretty much every day, but not just with math. She only likes history and art. Anything else and she throws a fit. yesterday she snapped her pencils.
We did Saxon for 2 years. Then it came to me that she wasn't retaining anything, so we switched to Horizons. She can do it so much easier and understands the way the concepts are presented, but she is convinced that she hates it and we will be going back to Saxon against my wishes in the fall.
She hates subtraction. I know she can do it, so at this point, I cross it off her sheets.
I hate to admit it, but I usually have to bribe her with something every few days. It could be playing Wii, watching a movie, free time, making something, etc.
My oldest used to dread math too. I had her finish Saxon 7/6. Then we got her Life of Fred and she does her math willingly each day. She is talking about calculus and is tickled that I don't know how to do some of her math. Life of Fred is meant to have the child figure out their problems, even if it takes them a few days of thinking about it.
Aside from bribery and being a Mean Mom, I have no real advice, just sympathy.
I apologize if I repeat what other commenters already said, but I only have a minute and couldn't read all the responses. I only have one parenting advice which works in all situations: offer a consequence for every action (both good and bad). For something like what you describe, I would up the number of problems for the next day. If today's problems take twice as long as they should, tomorrow there will be twice more problems. I did this with my daughter's piano practice: when practicing 2 songs took twice too long, tomorrow there will be 4 songs. Also, if they only take half the time, tomorrow you get half the problems. It works! Good luck :)
I am simply overwhelmed by the encouragement, ideas, and advice that have been offered both here in the comments and in private emails. Thank you everyone. Please know I am reading every comment, I just don't have time to email each of you personally about your words. I appreciate your help!
My thoughts are this... I have three children who all use MUS. I know the program and I know that I have three DIfferent types of learners. So I can manipulate the program for each of my learners. For one we keep the blocks out-- not because she needs them for adding but because she needs them for PLAYING--- while she does her math.
The second we do the If you do great on workpage ABC you get do skip D and if you do good on your systematic review you only need to do one page of it. OR we allow him to do every other problem as long as he has the concept of course. It makes him feel like he has control over how much math he does and for him that is enough (NOW I will say he does not have a bad attitude which is a whole nother topic in my opinion so I might not do that if HE did.)
for the third- my eldest who struggles with math. For one I allow her more time than the others. I know when we start that it will take her an hour, if I have the time I give it to her, if I dont I set a time for her and whatever she doesnt finish in the time frame given she will have to accomplish after "school" hours. I eliminate MY frustration with her by KNOWING ahead it will take her longer.
When she has a problem we address it often times with my husband too. He is calm and keeps both myself and my daughter from reaching our frustration level-- which happens quickly!
If an attitude occurs- we stop math and deal with the attitude. YES math at this age is non negotiable-- meaning I am supposed to teach it according to the state. BUT as far as our household goes attitude takes center stage when it comes up. So whether is reading the Bible, taking, having a consequence or praying together we deal with the attitude APART from the math. It isnt about math and even if she is frustrated she cant throw a fit. PERIOD. So once her attitude is back in check we can go back to the math. It is simply about control--- whether she is frustrated because it is too hard, or she is tired, or she just simply doesnt want to do it. IT IS about control. The time to talk or figure out the "WHY" is not when she is frustrated of course but perhaps during a non math time--- perhaps you can give her control according to her attitude, meaning if she is in the right spirit and frame of mind you could say skip every other problem? Or if you do a page today tomorrow you can do math speed drills on the computer or play mathblaster or something??? Perhaps a reward system based on "right" answers or simply attitude? BUT I dont think stopping math is the right answer becasue it isnt about the math--- she IS getting the math right? It is simply about attitude and control??? I know math is hard- I have issues and I relate to my kids in that area when they have struggles BUT really hard doesnt meal it give you liscense to be ugly? That is a valuable lesson to learn now and you get to teach her! See it as an opportunity to talk about why we like to control situation and laying down SELF because that is what the core is. Perhaps she could right a mission statement about the attitude she should have .. and read that before she starts math. You could read it outloud together before she starts just as a reminder of WHY she is obeying you, why she has the mind of christ, why she needs to put aside what she wants, etc??? MOST OF ALL--- you are doing an amazing job and no matter if she EVER learns the math-- she is going to learn about obedience and love and taht will always take her farther than math ever can! :) Keep pluggin on! sorry for the novel too!
I have a 10 year old daughter too. We use teaching textbooks. I hate how expensive it is. But, it eliminates the middle man so to speak, which is me. The teacher on the computer teaches her the lesson, not me. It scores her problems, not me. It then walks her through her mistake if she gets it wrong, not me. It is almost like my DD wanted to fight with me over math before we did TT. She still fusses, and says she hates math, but I am not part of her problem anymore. Does that make sense?
My DD is also my oldest. We do not formally school in the summer, but we are doing a devotional together. Last night we sat on our front porch just the two of us and started Elizabeth George's A Girl After God's Own Heart. The first chapter was about the temperature of our hearts. Good Stuff.
You are wise in seeing the heart of the matter that is not related to math. I think this is one of the hardest ages. They want to be cuddled and held sometimes and then other times they are running from the room in a tizzy. I love your blog. YOu are doing a great job!
Hang in there!! Don't worry about not responding to every reply, your time goes to your family first. I am intrigued by the "pass" idea also. We all have bad days. I am considering earning one every 2 weeks. I also agree that hormones could be a big part. Mikayla will be 10 next month, not unusual for hormones to start flucuating and surging at times. But also address the need for Mikayla to learn self control and be obedient. Talk about what you don't like, but need to do and that there are no fits. I did this with my boys once and they were shocked to find out I hate doing the dishes, because I keep a good attitude (mostly).
Lots of us have had days like this. Take time to be thankful that you as the person who loves her the most are the one helping her through this.
And it goes without saying: Pray, pray for endurance, pray for wisdom, pray for Mikayla and understanding her. You are doing awesome, you just might not see it until Mikayla is 25 years old!
We have the same issues with my Boo. Thing is there are times when I know she is getting it she is just to stubborn to admit it. When the tears start she will just not let it go! That is what frustrates me.
Wow. I can't believe all the responses you've gotten! That says this definitely isn't a unique problem, doesn't it? ;) I just wanted to add a couple of quick things that I don't believe I've seen mentioned. MUS can get very dull after a while for some kids. (Mine definitely complain every so often about it getting boring.) So I bought a supplemental curriculum to change it up. We really like the Mathematical Reasoning series from Bright Minds. It uses bright pictures, and lots of creative problems to get them to practice. It has a lot critical thinking in it, which the girls love, as well. If you want to look at it next time we get together, let me know. We'll pull it out at least once a week to break things up. We can skip pages and do whatever. It isn't presented sequentially, but more of a spiral approach. They love it, and honestly, I've even had thoughts of switching completely over to it, except I really like the thorough approach of MUS. So for now we go back and forth on both. Another idea I thought I'd throw at you is since Makayla seems like she likes being a "big girl" and having independence, perhaps you make math her responsibility and see what happens. You could tell het that math is her responsibility this week. Give her 5 pages of problems, (but not too much on each page), and then tell her she has until Friday at 3:00 to finish these. Tell her you'll be available to help her when she needs it at certain times or whatever works for you and then just see how she does. Then after she completes them set up a consequence/reward system maybe. If she completes all her work for the week she gets a small reward of some sort. (maybe getting to stay up a half hour or so later than the other children and getting to play a board game with Mommy and Daddy on Friday night.) If she doesn't do it, then you take something away she enjoys, such as computer or video game time or something like that until it is complete. Good luck! Makayla is a sweetie and you're such a wonderful mother, I'm sure you'll be prompted towards the right answer for her.
Are you sure Makayla and my daughter aren't twins?! Brianna is exactly the same way with math. We've had it take up to *4 hours* to finish math!
One new thing we're trying may not work for you since you've got other little ones, but I've started making a print out of all the work expected of her for the week. It's up to her to plan it out. If she ends up leaving all her math to the last day (like last week), oh well, it was *her* choice. She had to do the whole week's worth of math in one day. This week she planned it a little better. She still has more than half of her math to do tomorrow, but at least it's not all of it.
I know I"m late to this conversation, but I wanted to give you some hope. I could have written your post 8 months ago, and about every other day for years before that about my daughter. So emotional about math it was crazy! She was completely irrational about her fear and frustration about math. After more TOS Math reviews than I can count, it started to get better (after it got a *lot* worse). After she got closer to 11 than 10, it completely stopped. She still doesn't love math, it doesn't come easy to her and it isn't her strongest subject, but I think something about moving to the age of 11 has given her a bit of emotional maturity that helps her handle the frustration much better than before. So...it might be just a maturity thing and giving her different tools to help her so she doesn't get to the "blow-up" stage will really make a difference for her until she has the emotional maturity to handle that frustration. There is hope, mama!!
Jesse - Thank you. I needed to hear that today, even though it is a long time after the original post. Maturity will help, you're right.
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